"From the Bureau of Criminal Identification -- and these are hard statistics -- in Salt Lake City, Chief [Chris] Burbank's jurisdiction, 81 percent of the homicides, when you have a recorded ethnicity, are committed by Hispanics,"
BCI shows that 18 people were arrested in Salt Lake City for homicides in 2008. 9 were Hispanic, 2 were not Hispanic, and 7 were of unknown ethnicity.
However, the Salt Lake Police Department has slightly different numbers for 2008. According to them, there were 19 homicide arrests that year. The racial makeup was as follows: 3 Caucasian, 7 Hispanic, 3 Polynesian, 5 African-American, and one Native American.
However, nothing in either set of numbers tells us how many of those arrests were of people here illegally. Not all Hispanics are here illegally.
And, just because you get arrested for homicide doesn't make you guilty.
-Bob
p.S. I want to see Carl Wimmer's papers. I don't believe that he's here legally.....
11 comments:
Too bad Carl didn't have Mike Lee around to explain to him the numbers. Mike would have still had him say the same thing but Carl would have at least understood it.
Bob, Your point in this is EXACLTY what I was trying to point out during the Sunday Edition show. You just made my point. We do not know which ones are legal and which ones are not. THAT is the problem. We DON'T gather the data properly.
Carl Wimmer
Representative Wimmer-
Thanks for responding.
You throw the numbers out there like like ALL of the Hispanics are illegal. How do we know that the Caucasians aren't here illegally from Canada or England?
If all of the people arrested are here legally, does that validate or invalidate your argument?
So, from what I understand Carl to be saying is, that all brown people need to carry their papers with them to prove if they are in the US legally? Brown people are now guilty for being brown until they can prove themselves innocent.
Bob,
Thank you for allowing me to respond. My point was (and if you saw the entire clip from Sunday edition you would realize) my point is that according to the data from BCI, of those who we have ethnic status for, 81% of the people arrested for homicide are of Hispanic ethnicity. There were a number of "unknown" ethnic backgrounds, so as anyone who knows statistics realizes, you either completely throw out the unknowns, OR you figure that they will follow the same rational break-down as the known quantity data.
The problem (as I said on the program) is that I would guess that a good share of these were Illegal immigrants (I simply give the benefit of the doubt to American's) But we simply DON'T KNOW. We refuse to collect good quality data, so American citizens and illegal immigrants are being lumped into one big generic category of "Hispanics". I believe this is fundamentally unfair.
I am being drug through the mud because I quote data from a state agency (BCI). People should not get mad at me; they should get mad at the pathetic way we gather and collect data, and the people who simply don't care to collect quality data.
I do not think all Hispanics are illegal. Quite the contrary in fact. Many opposed to the Arizona law, based on the "racial profiling" argument must assume that all illegal’s are Hispanic, because they continue to say that the police will have to "racially profile" to enforce the law. Why would this be? If illegal aliens come from every corner of the earth, then why would we need to racially profile to determine a person’s status?
Anyone who knows me on a personal level realizes I am not a bigot. I could go on about the poor and the ethnic minorities whom I sponsor, feed and send money to, so they can get a quality education, and I could tell you how many ethnic minority friends and relatives that I have, but that gets tiring. I am 100% against illegal immigration, and that does NOT make me a bigot.
I tried to talk about the need for a comprehensive solution, but Bruce Lindsay did not want to talk solutions, he wanted to talk about controversial topics. I'm not even that sold on the AZ law yet. Not until we do other things first, such as eliminate the government sponsored magnets we have for illegal immigrants. Until we have done this, it does not make sense to implement a new law. But the reporter did not want to hear this.
The quote I gave was accurate, based on the horrible data that we have. That was my point.
What I want to know is how the state agency has such bad numbers if SLPD has better numbers. Seems someone is dropping the ball on the state level, doesn't it? Especially since the unknown numbers fell so contrary to the known numbers.
Carl, What do you mean by this? "I would guess that a good share of these were Illegal immigrants (I simply give the benefit of the doubt to American's)"
So, your guessing that Hispanics are not Americans?
What does being Hispanic have to do with being illegal? Your comment "when you have a recorded ethnicity, are committed by Hispanics," tells me that you believe the majority of Hispanics are illegal. You keep referring to ethnicity reporting in crime stats, what does that have to do with illegals? If you want to know if illegals are committing crimes, then lets start keeping that data.
And the light FINALLY comes on for Brad...DING DING DING..You deserve a brownie point sir. Good grief...
Your last sentence is EXACTLY what I am saying. WE need to start collecting the data! Good data, but folks like Chief Burbank, dont want too collect it, he said so himself. No agency collects it. I have worked for three police departments and none of them collect it.
You are so busy trying to find some hidden meaning in what I write, that you can not understand plain typing. Lose the ideological, hate Wimmer blinders for five minutes and join the conversation. (We will have to continue tomorrow night, I am going to bed.)
Hidden meaning? I'm just reading what you said and it all sounds to me like you believe Hispanics who commit crimes are in the US illegal. Lets take the ethnicity out of it and look at who is in the US legal and who is not. Nothing to do with who is Hispanic and who is not.
While I've understood what you've been saying for some time now, I believe your light has not been turned on. Maybe one day you'll catch on.
Carl,
You show your beliefs through your own statement. "We refuse to collect good quality data, so American citizens and illegal immigrants are being lumped into one big generic category of "Hispanics"." You assume that all illegal immigrants are Hispanic and base your argument completely on ethnicity.
What if I said that 40 percent of the crimes are committed by Polynesian and Caucasian people in Utah so Mormons must be committing the crimes. I assume that most Polynesian and Caucasians in Utah are Mormon. By your logic, I would be just as right as you until proved wrong by some mythical data.
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