Paul Mero Whines about What's In The Scriptures

So, Sutherland Institute President Paul Mero wrote a post titled "Confused Mormons whine about ‘Zion curtain’" and this is an attempt to answer his post.

The basis for Mero's whining is a Facebook group called "Utah Mormons Against The Zion Curtain". I know the person who started the group. He started the group under a fake Facebook account, because his employer does not like him getting involved with politics.

From the post:

The “Zion curtain” is what Utah’s pro-liquor lobby – and now, it seems, confused Latter-day Saints – calls the physical partition in some eating establishments between the mixing of alcoholic drinks and the serving of them. Not quite a cause worthy of the ominous “iron curtain” metaphor, but a serious subject for some people.

Actually, since the sponsor of the bill used the term in his interview on X96, and lacking a better term for it, this is now what it is called. I agree that it is a little strong of a metaphor. However, "The wall to hide alcohol like it's pornography" doesn't exactly roll of the tongue.

And, I wish to know why he calls Latter-Day Saints who use the term "confused."

Rather than arguing alcohol-sales policies – which it looks like Sutherland will be forced to do if state legislators move to “privatize” liquor stores during the 2012 legislative session – I think it’s worth discussing right now why this libertarian claptrap is, much like a drunken driver’s judgment, the result of clouded thinking.

I can't wait to see Sutherland argue with themselves on alcohol next year. After all, it says right on their web site "every Utahn should support public policies that keep our markets free from unnecessary government regulation, prevent governments from competing with the private sector, encourage private-sector solutions to community problems, create incentives to work, and protect against fraud and unfair practices." Let's keep that in mind as we continue here.

Mero then quotes from the information page of the Facebook group:

“We do not believe it just to amingle [sic] religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.” (D&C 134:9)

We feel like the new requirement that Utah Restaurants hide all of their alcohol is against free-market principles that Utah supposedly espouses. We feel that if Utah residents don’t want their children seeing alcohol being served, then those residents shouldn’t patronize those businesses.

We also recognize that the Zion Curtain harms the image of our state and our religion.

Then quotes a "friendly posting" that was written by me:

From Utah Constitution, Article I Section 4: “There shall be no union of Church and State, nor shall any church dominate the State or interfere with its functions”

And now, Mero makes the giant leap of interpretation:

Doctrinally, based on their interpretation of Latter-day Saint scripture, it seems this group is under the presumption that religious-minded people shouldn’t be involved in politics. Or at least Mormons shouldn’t be involved in Utah politics – probably the most immature, least realistic, least constitutional, least democratic-oriented thought in this Facebook group.

Actually, that is so far from the truth that it borders on being a lie. However, what the scripture that is being quoted here is saying is that if you are passing laws solely to benefit one religion, you are setting a dangerous precedent. What's to stop a state from banning dancing? Or Ice Cream? R-rated movies?

"We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others;" -D&C 134:4

Mero then goes on to whine about libertarians, like they have anything to do with it. Most of the people in that group that I know are far from libertarians. However, they do understand a very important doctrinal point:

God "has given us this experience on the earth so we can learn and grow. We can show our love for Him through our choices and our obedience to His commandments." (Preach My Gospel p. 31) "When we obey God, we follow the influence of the Spirit and choose to conform to His will. Obedience to the commandments brings us peace in this life and eternal life in the world to come" (Ibid. 72) "Part of the experience of this life is to learn to overcome temptation and to choose right over wrong." (lds.org Study by Topic -- temptation)

If you hide the sin from view, you hide the temptation. You hide the temptation, you hide the opportunity for people to grow by avoiding the Temptation.

Again, Sutherland claims that "every Utahn should support public policies that keep our markets free from unnecessary government regulation." If Paul Mero truly believed that, then he would join our group. After all, the Free Market should decide if alcohol should be mixed/poured in front of children (and adults who might be tempted). If Mormons don't want to see it, they shouldn't go there. I don't like breathing cigarette smoke while I shop. Rather than trying to get my Representatives to ban smoking at Gateway, I choose not to shop at Gateway. Nobody has become a better person by watching reality TV. Rather than wanting the Legislature to outlaw Reality TV, I choose not to watch it (except for The Amazing Race -- I'm not perfect). I wouldn't want my children to see the scantily-clad women at Hooters. I'm not going to ask the Legislature to require servers in restaurants to cover cleavage and wear knee-length shorts. I'm going to not take my business there. That's how the free market works.

In fact, I understand from people who have been to Hooters in multiple states that Utah's Hooters girls wear more clothes than they do in other states. Because that's what the market dictates.

If businesses are apt not to locate here because of anti-free-market principles, that is wrong. If local people who want to open restaurants fear that they are going to have to follow nonsensical regulations, that is bad for Utah.

And, by imposing regulations that favors one religion over the activities of those not in the religion, that makes Utah look like a Theocracy. Which is bad for Utah, and paints the LDS Church in a bad light. The church has recognized this in their not-to-subtle push to loosen liquor controls during the Huntsman administration. Hopefully, they don't need to get involved again.

-Bob

HB 223 -- Applying Free Market Principles to Liquor Licensing

Blue in Red Zion:

This bill, if it were to pass, would eliminate the population requirement for liquor licenses issued to restaurants and open the liquor license process to the free market – allowing any restaurant to receive a license if they are willing to pay the fee.

For those of you who may not know, there is a limited number of restaurant liquor licenses (and bar licenses for that matter) that the liquor commission can give out to restaurants across the state, and this number is tied to the state population. In fact, only one license can be distributed per 5,200 people if the restaurant wishes to sell liquor (these laws apply to, say, the Olive Garden). The bill goes further, if a restaurant wishes to sell wine, heavy beer, or beer (but not spirits), it too lifts the population requirement of one license per 9,300 people (these laws apply to that local wing joint you may love).

There's a reality that just because a place sells alcohol doesn't mean that you have to partake. And, if this means that more restaurants can open and be profitable (because there is a large profit margin in alcohol, as well as soft drinks), then I'mm all for it.

-Bob

A Challenge for my "true free-market conservative" readers

Glen Warchol:

The Guv dragged Utah's liquor laws into the current millenium, but his replacement Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert has no intention of continuing the modernization. He tells the Deseret News that he will not take the next step to push for more liquor licenses statewide. Virtually no licenses are left and Salt Lake City in particular needs more to create a visitor-friendly entertainment district. Says Herbert:

Let's let [new liquor laws] play out in the marketplace before we … cue up again for a change in the liquor laws [including an increase licenses]. Let's see what the results of the current liquor laws are.

I don't know much about free-market economic theory — help me out here Rep. John Dougall and Sen. Steve Urquhart — but doesn't an artificial government cap on liquor licenses prevent the market from doing its thing? Basically handcuffs on the ol' Invisible Hand?

I agree with Glen. If there is enough business to run out of liquor licenses, then the market is proving the need for more, right?

Come on, conservatives. Prove Glen and I wrong.

-Bob

From The SideTrack

Paul Mero is NOT a conservative

You want proof, just look at The transcripts of the conversation about alcohol between him and Tyler over at KVNU. It's full of big-government regulation.

And, me being me, I have some real issues with some of the things said there.

[14:52] Tyler: Here’s what’s frustrating about this Paul, and I don’t mean to go to the lowest common denominator here. An 80 percent LDS government is legislating its morals on a 60 percent LDS state. That 20 percent representation gap there is what’s making this a problem for everyone. That’s the bottom line.
[14:52] Tyler: It’s flown since 1896 because the gap was far less defined
[14:53] Tyler: but it’s going to become more pronounced and more problematic, in things not just limited to booze, as this state’s LDS population becomes more and more diluted.
[14:54] PTM: sorry, I was on the phone
[14:54] PTM: what you’re talking about is only a problem if there is a problem with LDS values, culture, and behavior. Is there?
[14:56] Tyler: There is a problem anytime value set A is imposed on people with value set B, C, D…
[14:57] Tyler: By government, that is.
[14:58] PTM: That’s life man.

Doctrine and Covenants 134:4 -- "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others;"

And THAT s the problem I have with the way the Utah legislature, especially those members who share my faith, handle alcohol.

We are punished for our own transgressions.

[23:33] PTM: and, btw, I don’t think serius drinkers (drunks) go out to get drunk…but people having fun, losing track of time, socializing, get drunk
[23:34] PTM: and, at Chilis and Applebees, kids see it happening right in front of them

Let's not forget Jazz games. Maybe we should hide the children at Jazz games, too. And concerts. Especially by country artists. Let's ban country music.

[23:35] PTM: well, good then, our laws work…so whatcha bitchin about?
[23:35] Tyler: I can’t speak for the data outside of Cache County, but since 1995, not one DUI has been found as a result of drinking at a restaurant
[23:35] Tyler: I’m not complaining about restaurant laws as they’re presently constituted.
[23:35] PTM: and how, may I ask, you could know if someone drank at a restaurant?
[23:36] Tyler: The private club membership law is horrific and ineffective and the assertion that restaurants should have to hide their liquor is small minded. If you as a parent don’t want your kid to see the liquor, you have a right not to go to the restaurant
[23:36] Tyler: The restaurant absolutely, positively, unequivocally has more of a right to operate business as they choose under the law than you do to be offended at their business practices.
[23:36] PTM: orrrrr…the restaurant could separate their bar from the food part…like Market Street does out where I live
[23:37] Tyler: When a DUI arrest is made the location where the person drinking is recorded.
[23:37] PTM: good law, bad law?
[23:37] Tyler: That’s a decision Market Street can make, but each business should be allowed to operate as they choose.

Go figure, Paul Mero isn't the "free market" guy we all thought he was.

-Bob

Booze, the Utah Legislature, and all that Jazz

DNews:

Senate Republicans now are trying to stop alcoholic drinks from being poured in front of minors in restaurants, their latest attempt to thwart Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr.'s plans to ease the state's liquor laws.

The governor said Monday he believes there will be progress toward his goal of making Utah more tourist-friendly, but acknowledged there likely will be trade-offs.

"The good news is that it's even being discussed in the first place, because it represents we're not maintaining the status quo," Huntsman said.

But that's exactly what Senate Republicans have said they want. The majority Senate GOP caucus has already opposed Huntsman's proposal to eliminate private club memberships.

On Wednesday, the Administrative Rules Committee will consider whether the existing barriers intended to separate restaurant customers from alcoholic drink preparations are enough — even though Huntsman has questioned their necessity.

"Restaurants are turning into bars," Senate President Michael Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, said. "It's making it look attractive. Kids see it and wonder what they're missing. I think we need to be a little more strict."

I wonder what the difference is between Johnny seeing a drink at a restaurant and a Jazz game. Will we soon have to erect walls around the beer stands at EnergySolutions Arena?

-Bob

LDS Church Press Release on Alcohol

The LDS Church issued an interesting press release today regarding Utah Liquor Laws. It didn't come right out and say anything new (that I can see), but we can do a little reading between the lines.

The release, with the important parts in bold:

SALT LAKE CITY 15 September 2008 One of the functions of religious leaders in a democracy is to add their moral voice to issues of public importance. This is why churches take positions on social issues.

While The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches its members to avoid alcohol altogether, it acknowledges that alcoholic beverages are available to the public. The Church has always called for reasonable regulations to (1) limit overconsumption, (2) reduce impaired driving and (3) work to eliminate underage drinking. The Church will continue to focus on these public health and safety requirements.

In this, the Church adds its voice to those of many others. Parents inform their children about the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse. Teachers and community leaders educate the public. State laws control the distribution of harmful substances.

The cost of alcohol abuse is clear. Consumption of alcohol is a significant contributor to death and disease in the United States, damaging individuals and families and striking at the heart of communities. Overconsumption of alcohol increases the incidence of spouse and child abuse. Among confirmed cases of children who are abused, more than 40% involve the use of alcohol or drugs. Alcohol accounts for approximately 75,000 deaths in the United States annually and $184 billion in overall economic costs to the nation each year. More than a third of fatal vehicle collisions are related to alcohol. In 2005 a staggering 16,885 alcohol-related vehicle collisions ended in death.

The positive consequences of Utah’s current regulations on alcohol consumption are readily apparent. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Utah has the lowest percentage of alcohol-related motor vehicle deaths in America. It also has the lowest per-capita alcohol consumption in the nation.

The regulatory measures that the 50 states use to control overconsumption of alcohol are many and varied. Both in the United States and in many other nations, laws that reduce drunk driving, discourage underage drinking and control overconsumption have been strengthened. No doubt Utah will engage this issue again in next year’s legislative session, as it has done for decades past.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that Utahns, including those who work in the hospitality industry, can come together as citizens, regardless of religion or politics, to support laws and regulations that allow individual freedom of choice while preserving Utah’s proven positive health and safety record on limiting the tragic consequences of overconsumption of alcohol.

I don't see anything in here that would preclude eliminating the private club regulations.

-Bob

I love Utah's liquor laws

From Paul Rolly:

Tourists beware: The first place a hungry Bruce Passey found open in downtown Salt Lake City last Tuesday evening was Murphy's Bar and Grill, a private club on Main Street. So Passey went inside and ordered a sandwich and a bottled water to go.
The slightly embarrassed clerk behind the bar explained that because he was not a member, he could not buy a bottled water and take it outside.
She then apologized for Utah's quirky liquor laws, or in this case, Utah's bottled water laws.

Having been in California, and spending some time in establishments that served alcohol, I never once had to have a sip of the stuff, contrary to what Utah's legislators might think would happen with their obtrusive laws. Furthermore, these establishments were in areas frequented by children no less (The Disney Resort), yet I did not see one child sipping an drink....

-Bob

Utah's Liquor Laws

One of my favorite bloggers right now happens to be Glen Brown. He posted the other day about Utah's liquor laws and the debate around them.

Specifically, he was talking about a story in the Deseret Morning News Official Paper Of The Super Adventure Club. More specifically, the comments section on the article.

As usual for those things, it turns into a pissing match where one side says that Mormons are crazy SOBs and the other side says that if you don't like it, leave. Vegas was the preferred destination this time, I think.

Then Glen goes on to talk about sin and the Mormon Church. He does a pretty good job of getting the Utah Mormon view down.

Anyway, that was a setup to my comment that I would leave on the DMNOPOTSAC webpage if I were to wander over there:

"We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil govenment."

It's scripture. Doctrine and Covenants 134:9. Look it up.

-Bob